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**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 08:58 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

pictures speak louder than words

left to right Dana 60 4.88, JK 4.88, std D44 4.56

the side by side shots tell a little more

dana 60 4.88 vs jk dana 44 4.88 vs std dana 44 4.56

some close ups:
4.56:1 std dana 44 pinion on the top, 4.88 JK dana 44 pinion on the bottom

---------------------------------------
And for comparisons sake a 4.88 JK pinion on the left and a 4.88 dana 60 pinion on the right

or since i was an idiot and for got to rotate the picture the JK is on top dana 60 on the bottom
the pinions are the same diameter the jk just caught the light flash and looks larger but they are the same. 24 spline (jk) vs 29 spline (D60)

This gives a pretty good idea of the multiple size similarities between the 60 and the jk
jk is on the left dana 60 on the right

Whats interesting is the depth of the teeth on the JK pinion are the same as the dana 60..... i was quite shocked holding the jk R&P next to the 60 R&P, the only difference is length of the pinion and the diameter of the ring gear. but the surface area of the teeth on the ring gear, and the surface area of the teeth on the pinion and the depth / amount of tooth contact is really close. it is a significant difference from a std dana 44 pinion to ring gear relationship.

to build a 609 i was going to have to buy a aftermarket nodular 3rd member, $300 +/-, a ruffstuff housing $600 +/-, and a pinion gaurd $60+/-. On top of all my other parts. not saying this is equal to that path but opens the door to a grey area between 60 or custom 609 and running something a tad lighter and smaller

plus with my 401 its a little extra peace of mind, it may not be a 60 but it sure is alot closer in strength to a lp dana 60 front or a 609 than a std dana 44 or run of the mill dana 60/44 hybrid would be and i get the lighter package, clearance and the different factor.

jk and d60 pinions, obviously the dana 60 pinion teeth are still a little larger but the jk and dana 60 are much closer in size

dana 60 ring gear there is more meat but pretty close

jk ring gear

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:03 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

Really ruff break down obviously theres more to it and alot of ways to save or beef up and inflate costs

608.9
Housing already had but cost of a housing is $100
Dana 61 for parts $300
Narrowing and welding $400 (if you have to pay for this service)
Ring and pinion $210 (new but take out 4.10's and otehr gear sets can be had for less)
Jana k4 kit with bearings and seals $250 (or piece the bearings together on your own for less)
RD147 ARB $895 shipped
Axle tube seals $40
Diff cover (already have) $110
$2295.00
My cost minus cover & minus housing is at $1885.00 tecnically minus the welding too but figured id leave that in there to make the comparison fairly close.

and for the high pinion crowd

call it a 6054 or 6050 or whatever you want to call it because once you stuff a 9" dana 50 R&P in there it ceases to be just a 44 even though its got dana 44 guts in there
high pinion dana 44 F250 Housing cost is $200 +/-
Dana 61 for parts $300
Narrowing and welding $400
dana 50 Ring and pinion $210
Jana 54 kit with bearings and seals $250
RD147 ARB $925 shipped
Axle tube seals $40
Diff cover (already have) $110
$2425.00

i always was opposed to a 44/60 hybrid the weak link on a std dana 44 was always the pinion.........so there was never any reason to go much past a 30 spline carrier and alloy shafts... but when carl started toying around with his kits, the JK kit really caught my eye as something i could bring myself to look at later on and when i started my re-build on my jeep i was going to build a 61 front but the lure of doing something a little different got the best of me.

I should also note that a 50 suffers from the same 26 spline small dana 44 sized pinion shaft, the pinion on diesels will break at the yoke splines......but the larger ring gear and pinion head still are a worthy upgrade

and for the sake of visuals
Super 10" dana 60 HP 4.88, vs std dana 60 HP 4.88 vs JK rear LP 4.88

Just to recap: i'll be running the jk 8.9" R&p cryo'd for the front the ARB used is a 3 series carrier RD147 front

Super 60 on the left, dana 60 on the bottom right, jk ring on top right

super 60, std 60, jk 44 all are 4.88's then there is a std D44 R&P 4.56 ratio
look closely at the dana 60 ring gear vs the jk dianeter aside the actual contact patch across the face of the gear is very close.

jk and super 60 on top
std d44 and std dana 60 on bottom
I think this really shows alot the jk over the top of the std 44 shows the additional girth of the ring gear

std dana 60 with super 60 under neith, and std dana 44 4.56 with jk 4.88 on bottom

No more R&P pictures till the install jsut since i had all of them sitting hre i figured it was good to post up

j20 housing before the knuckles got welded on. somewhere i have a picture of the knuckles welded on when i find it i'll post it

yes those are 1/2" thick 3" tubes

I might run some cheap usa standard 4340 inner shafts and then if i come across a set of 4340 outers and keep my 30 spline hubs with stock D60 joints that way cost is still down in terms of $340 for inners, $300 for stubs and $250 for new hubs + some super joints at another $400.
right now i can get the usa std inner blanks for $89 a pc+ $60 to spline per side. so $300 +/- for my inners, then on stubs i can get spicer 35 spline outers for $70 a pc so $150 +/- then hubs at $230 +/- for a total of $680 but if im going to do 35 spline outers i should do 4340 so really itd cost me $830 out the door. Or my budget wise alternative is $230 on inners, $115 a pc for new outer 30 spline 4340's and im out the door for $530. i get plenty strong bigger u joints, 35 spline inners and outers that are equally as strong as a spicer grade 35 spline outer and have strong ears i keep nearly $300 for other aspects of the project and can always upgrade later

obviously lots of clean up left to do but i finally found a couple of picutures of the knuckles welded on

Axle shafts:

I was going to run 35 spline stock inners and 30 spline stock outers with spicer joints ......... but

I found a decent deal on overstock diff parts .com $89 a pc for 1.5" blank dana 60 4340 shafts (usa Standard brand which i believe is yukon's blem line)

Then i stumbled onto a new set of 12" GM/Dodge 4340 30 spline outer yukon stubs here on pirate for $120 for the pair.

I still plan to run a std spicer joint with full circle clips

A little axle softcore porn, threw a 760x joint in there just to contrast it against the spicer 5-806x joint.

full circle snap ring for a 35mm shaft with a 1.6mm grove, part #98541A146. It measures out at a hair over 0.058 whereas the spicer c-clip is 0.059.

pictures of a full circl installed

38" 4340 axle blanks that i ordered they ended up coming with Yukon tags attached to them but were listed on the invoice as USA standard.

Dean at Performance Cryo did my axle splining

Planning to run spicer 5-806x non greasable forged joint with one of the caps drilled and tapped for a zerk (at least thats my plan till someone tells me im nuts), full circle clips, 30 spline hubs and carry a drive flange for the day when a hub pops.

sure id love 35 spline outers but thats buying new hubs and more money for stubs and these were hard to turn down at the price and im sure i'll probably never kill em

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:06 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

making a girdled differential cover. there is probably a million ways to do this. carl at Jantz enterprises does his with 4 studs and sleeves through the cover. bang for the buck his is less headache and a nice product and really does cover all angles.... ...... i just want to try something different but highly recommend his approach

but i wanted to have / try and make something myself similar to an LPW style cover for my setup and this seemed to fit my idea and fit my budget for this portion of the project. im starting to get to a tight budget and a diff cover i build myself is alot more appealing right now

I started with a Ruff stuff cover. because i got it for alot less. the Great lakes cover with 1/2" flange would have been better but this was the test child and i didnt want to spend $160 on a 1/2" cover only to screw it up on a bad idea.

used 2 1/2" x 3" grade 8 set screws

Got 2 pcs of 1" x 3" x 9-1/2" long sticks of solid stock hot roll for $6 out of the scrap bin at the local steel shop.

and had to cough up a case of beer to motivate the mad engineer that i call on when i need to barrow his skill and garage milling machine.

clamping it down:

Digging in:

i wish the drain plug wa s a touch smaller or a 1/4" higher sure would have made this easier

first nights work is done. since this is going to be more than one night of messing around. just know thats a 1" gap.

Now we have a giant leak to contend with in the face of the cover.

i wish someone would sell a 1/2" face flange in a DIY kit with 3/8" face pieces. the 1/2" flange would go a long ways especially since after you get done welding you'll be machining off a 1/16" +/- in some cases the fange is off 3/32 so almost an 1/8" to get a flat surface meaning the finished flange end up under 3/8" wehre as if one could start with 1/2" loosing a 1/16 or an 1/8" in the planning process wouldnt seem so significant ....... but thats splitting hairs i guess

Id love to drill everything out to 3/8 and tap new thread sbut all these 5/16 grade 8 bolts should get me close enough

Template for my idea of what the solid stock piece will look like. it will stick up 1/4" above the highest point of the cover face. the squigly lines will be where the load bolt holes will go down.

dana 44 bearing caps stick up 1/2" above the face of the housing. you need about 1-1/4"-1" of clearance from face to threaded hole for the load bolt.

a little more accurate template

I also plan to weld a few face gussets from top flange to center solid stock and lower flange to the solid stock. partially to prevent lifting of the flange as well to make sure everything is rigid. the outside of the solid stock will not follow the taper of the cover the angle will be steeper and then the flat surface spanning between will rise up slightly above the cover. hopefully i can machine that to say "D - 608.9"

Heres what i wish they made out of steel

http://www.lpwracing.com/Ultimate_Ch..._Chrysler.html

I was going to use a load bolt like this

but after fitting the piece of 1" solid into the hole i realized the ange of the cover doesnt lend itself to that idea as well as i thought. more likely i will get 2 grade 8 1/2"x3" set srews with a flat bottom and use them instead because i would have to fight the lack of distance between the solid stock and the bearing cap. also i'll have to check for clearance for the arb air line.

Also i forgot to mention earlier. The stock bearing cap bolts only engage 3/4" of thread and with 3 hash marks appear to be grade 5 from the factory as well they were 2-1/8" in length. i ran a 1/2x20 NC tap down to the bottom and it looks like i can engage 1"-1-1/4"+ of thread. I will be installing some 1/2x2-1/2" or 1/2x 2-3/4" Grade 8 bolts when i do the final install on everything. i was going to run studs and still might with the same objective in mind the more thread engagement the better. the more thread engagement the more cast iron i'll be pulling on and the addition of grade 8's over the original grade 5s should limit bolt stretch. add the load bolts into the equation and stiff cover and we should be a ways ahead on minimizing deflection from what a std dana 44 would do. On my rear 44 8 years ago i had few carrier bolts that did stretch significantly enough so when i backed them out they wobbled

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:08 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

Current tie rod to drag link situation. I was not getting enough travel of the knuckle vs the travel of the wagoneer pitman arm. here is what things look like. the drag link TRE is pitched up but there is no contact issues that was just from tightening the drag link bar.

I will machine and re drill the knuckle arms putting the TRE at 6-7/8" or 7". the existing surface are where the TRE hole currently is has 3/8" of material all around the top of the hole. the hole is 3/4". so if i move back an 1" i will retain the 3/8" of material all around my new hole, the knuckle is solid in the area that i am considering machining and it appears that at 7" i will have no contact issues and retain a more correct ratio.

here's one option

I am back 1-1/8" from the existing hole which puts me at 6-7/8" from center of KP to Center of new hole VS the original D60 knuckle is 8" center of King pin to center of TRE

Heres the drawings that i made up for doing this

I can move my housing forward up to an inch if I ever want a little more WB stretch, I will later but since i have so much else to do right now I dont need to so i won't. I thought i would have to to get everything tight and close but as it sits the modifcation is working fine. here is an after shot without moving anything else

I currently have full travel bump to bump on flat ground with an available small amount of more pitman arm travel. About a ¼ more rotation of the wheel. I did have to grind a little on the upper steering arm area to allow full pitch of the TRE but I doubt any of the machine work or grinding will effect the strength of the knuckles its all solid in that area and still significantly more material than a D44 knuckle. anyways with high steer arms id be applying the same amount of leverage

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:08 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

anyways also not the bolt holes are drilled and tapped to 3/8 not the std 5/16

Anyways the front end upgrade i think was definately an upgrade worth doing especially in the case of a hybrid. there is not much in this front end that is std dana 44, shoot even the ring gear bolts are bigger at 1/2".... but take note the ones that come from superior gear are too long for the threads

red circles indicate the only grinding that i had to do, one for the arb line, and the two small notches for knocking the bearing race in and out.

of the notching that was done at the pinion head bearing race. this is necessary for punching the thinner race in and out as you are trying to establish pinion depth. the smaller race groove had been previously notched by someone else but was not necessary.

as you can see at the bottom of the housing there was no housing griding to clear the ring gear, plenty of room top and bottom for this ring and pinion to fit in here.

I did have a little bit of an issue with getting the ring gear far enough over to get proper pinion depth but i finally got it, i think i still had the option of turning some material off the arb master shim if it had become necessary. in a scout rear housing i did have to grind a touch on the top and bottom to get it to clear as well on a bronco front end there was a little material to take off with a 4" grinder and it was about 15-20 minutes worth of work i suspect taht 3/4 ton housings have a litle more internal volume and space thana 1/2 ton or lighter. but i can not prove this, its only a therory.

Notice the grade 8 bolts holding the bearing caps in place.

threads in the ring gear were a little shallow for the length of the supplied dana 60 ring gear bolts. holes were just barely deep enough but threads werent all the way down. Nick suggested dana 50 bolts, he didnt have any so he reused the ones that we had but in the future if i were to do this again the dana 50 applications will have the correct length. and they are

changed things around after a friend of mine (nick at S&H) machined out a couple of dana 44 washers and shacked them behind the pinion head and between the bearing to get a better fit and pattern.

all he did was open up the center

But hey thats what experience and old age is for passing on a little bit of knowledge and preventing major catastrophies. i'm not to proud to admit when i've screwed up or needed help and give credit for fixing my mees ups. At least i know where to take it when i do need help with something that most shops wouldnt even touch. Thanks to Paul and Nick at S&H in Sacramento for helping me finish up what other wise would have taken me a couple more weeks to get around to finishing and then trying to figure out my errors and correct.

one other side note i think if i were to delve into this again i would put a single .100-.120 spacer under the race and then stack the balance under the pinion head. the crush sleeve eliminator spacer needs to be about .350+ thick then start stacking shims

pinion yoke you can use a t-case 24 spline u bolt style, JK pinion seal or some guys used dana 60 pinion seals and a dana 60 pinion nut

3 months of wheeling and plenty of abuse:

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:16 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

remember to silicon the seal in place it helps hold it a little better

making it fit in the Housing

1. The JK gears do fit in low pinion housings front and rear, on some housings the casting needed to be clearanced some with a grinder on the top side and bottom. try to get 1/4" of room around the ring gear

2. As the JK gears are thicker, the kit uses a 3 series carrier, aka a carrier case for ratios 373 and down. Also, the ring gear bolt holes in the carrier had to be drilled out to 7/16” or in some cases 1/2"

3. Now setting the carrier and ring gear assembly aside, you needed to notch the pinion bearing head shoulder to provide clearance for a punch to be able to remove the pinion head race as they are very narrow compared to the stock std dana 44 bearing race. Two small notches at 2 O’clock & 8 O’clock with a die gringer is all that’s necessary.

after that you install shims and a specer as per carl's instructions to achieve a shim pack nearly 1/4" tall. on the top half of the pinion jk's use a crush sleeve. carl's kit includes a spacer to avoid the crush sleeve issues.

Pinion Head bearing Cup

26823

Pinion Tail bearing Cup

HM88510

Pinion Head bearing Cone

26882

Pinion Tail bearing Cone

HM88547

Lots and lots of messing around, you'll have to make a spacer or two and more shims but it fits and its a big upgrade

HP50 into a HP44 housing

reverse engineering for the 44/50 654 crowd
http://sisoffroad.com/forums/showthr...ht=jana&page=2

**ddestruel** · 08-27-2012, 09:29 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

Food for thought for all you LP front end guys and even a few tid bits for the HP44 crowd.

**welndmn** · 08-28-2012, 08:44 AM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

Holy crap!
That was a very interesting read. A lot of damn work.

**TieWire** · 08-28-2012, 09:34 AM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

Wow! Thank goodness for the pics cause i'm not so good with all the words and stuff. Definitely worth the last three hours or so of reading. Looks like a great job! You want to be my friend?

**ddestruel** · 08-30-2012, 09:50 PM

Re: hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

lol

im no expert but im getting a little better after doing more than one. the nice thing is i bought the pinion bearings and races turned em down to make a set of setup bearings that i could slip on and slip off easily enough to adjust the shim packs (key) and cheap enough to get it close as well it helped with figuring out on aomw housings how much material needed ot be ground off top and bottom to clear the much larger ring gear

just trying to mix it up with a little more food for thought especially for all those guys who have 3 series lockers in their rigs alread, all the sudden they arent as cheap as they used to be

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hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

hybrid 44/60 front end aka the 608.9

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