Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

[Dennis]

I gotta address the axle wrap on the beast. Its sent me limping home twice now.

I see that Wild Horses has their "Wrap Trap" kit. It looks affordable enough, but does it work? It seems like it only connects at the top of the housing. Am I wrong here? Doesn't it need to connect on both the top and bottom?

Ruff Stuff has a kit too, but requires a bunch more fabbin. I don't trust my skills in that department. Either way, I'll probably use their 8" long spring perches while I'm doing all this. Do they do small fab jobs there? They're so close (I'm in Roseville), it might be my best choice.

Dose anyone have any experience with either of these kits?
How did you handle this issue? I know I'm not the only one with this problem.

[Fungus232]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

Check with the fellas at roughstuff. I think they'll install that stuff there! My buddy was getting one of their 9" housings and 4 link kit and they said to bring it down and they'd install it all. He ended up doing it himself but they did offer.

[CityHick]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

A buddy of mine runs the WH Wrap Trap with his 4.5" leaf springs. He says he felt the difference immediately when stomping on the gas pedal, and he hasn't wrapped his axle since (4-5 years of running it now). It is a very simple design and easy to install.

From what I have seen of the Ruff Stuff kit, it requires a little more customization but it is beefy.

I had axle wrap issues to the point of giving my leaf springs a bit of that "S-curve". I replaced the springs with the new design WH springs and have not had that problem again with several years of driving.

[Dennis]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

I've got the WH 3.5's now. I'm still not sure what to do. I read nothing but good stuff about Ruff stuff. But I just get the feeling I'm not gonna leave there without spending $1000. They have so many cool things that I just NEEDlol

[PDXBronco]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

Ruff stuff kit is bad ass and works great!

[Dennis]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

I just noticed that Ruff Stuff is active on CB, gravel maker or something like that, so I pm'd him there.

[FFMDX]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

I like the Ruff Stuff system. I'm in Roseville as well and you will get a better "deal" if you walk in. There's no way you will spend anywhere near $1000 on the anti-wrap with tubing btw. Don't know much about the WH system, but I have had no problems with my RS one....hardest part was making my front attachment point/crossmember bolt-on.....pretty east to install..

[ntsqd]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

Put me down as a rabid non-fan of the ladder bar type of traction bars. They introduce unnecessary and unnatural loads to the chassis and all of the involved components. If the Wrap-Trap or a design like it isn't getting the job done for you then it's time to be thinking about links and coil springs.

[pipelayer]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

The ruff stuff design is a proven design it just takes some work to get it on

[welndmn]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

The wrap trap works great, Lars even posted a bunch of smart people talk about on CB.com.
The wrap trap works great for crawling but hard stop light to stop light stuff a Y Link is a better setup.
I'd run the wrap trap in a heart beat.

[ntsqd]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

The ruff stuff design is a proven design it just takes some work to get it on

Like this one?
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/AWKIT.html

Lars showed me his work on this some time ago. It was a small eye opener. No doubt the ladder bar type works, but it is not the best solution as it works the springs pretty hard by forcing the pinion angle to change a lot as the suspension cycles.

Left alone the pinion angle change with just leaf springs is pretty small. With a ladder bar the axle travels in an arc and the pinion angle is fixed relative to the bar so it changes with the angle of the ladder bar. An easy test of this is to try to pull either shackle bolt out with the suspension at full droop. You won't be able to. Or pull one of the bolts and then droop the suspension. Look at how far the apart the bolt holes get with the suspension drooped.

As long as you're OK with semi-regular leaf spring replacement then the ladder bar design is a strong solution. I don't think of leaf springs as consumables, so the ladder bar design is not for me.

[pipelayer]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

I look at it the exact opposite but will say if you have the rear leaf springs set just perfect you will get better traction from not having a bar but a little more hop on climbs. This is the only rig I have needed a rear track bar because my springs are long and soft, before I made the trac bar you wouldent want to drive it out of the drive way because the spring wrap was so bad it would take out a U-joint the first time stabbing the skinny peddle.
Spring under rear and short arched springs will work like a trac bar and give up some flex and ride quality.
Not my video but fun to see shit brake
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=08UIvr6Sotk

[nvrstuk]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

So Mr. S... what do you recommend to keep the pinion from punching thru the floorboards as I can attest to regular leaf spring replacement.

I'm on my 3rd set of leaf springs in 15 yrs. I've only replaced the bushings on my 3 pt mount anti-wrap bar once. Definitely puts the wear on the leaf springs...

[ntsqd]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

FJ-60's (& probably FJ-40's too) really have a problem with snapping the pinion shaft. They're build like a Dana with a sharp step in them and when you wrap up the suspension like shown in that movie they break. I'm surprised that the one near the end didn't break.

I really would like someone with a ladder bar to remove one of the front bolts and then lift the rear off the ground and take a picture from the side. Better would be to take that pic with a tape measure showing the distance between the hole at the end of the bar and the hole that it normally aligns with.

I've no doubt that traction control linkage with slinky leaf springs is an absolute requirement. The issue that I have with ladder bars is that the axle housing moves in an arc with the pinion shaft always pointed to the same place. Which is good for the pinion U-J as then it isn't operating at extreme angles, but is bad for the springs because now they are being twisted into a 'S' by the ladder bar. My expectation is that ladder bar equipped rigs have or will have issues with the springs kinking over the spring perches, the perches bending and collapsing, or both.

Even if you have no traction device, measure your pinion angle at ride height relative to the bottom of the frame and then again with the suspension drooped out. I'd be surprised if those two angles differ by more than a couple of degrees.

The W-T avoids all of this by operating as a parallelogram with the springs. It's short-coming is that in consistent extreme use that the main leaf sees significant compressive loading. Which is why I said that if you're using a W-T and you're failing the springs then you need to move to linkage and coils. Nothing else (save one, odd suspension design - that being linkage and double-shackled leaf springs) is going to work and not kill parts.

If you're determined to keep the ladder bar and the leaf springs then an option would be to rotationally float the axle housing on the springs. Allow the housing to rotate relative to the springs. There used to be, and may still be drag race kits to do this. Not sure how applicable those kits might be to this use, but looking at them to see how they did it may be worth the time. the springs will still be the lateral locator of the axle, so what ever is bought or built needs to keep this in mind.

[nvrstuk]

Re: Axle Wrap, WH "Wrap Trap" or The Ruff Stuff Kit

Thanks for the feedback...

Here's what I built back in the late '90s after eating many bushings on the same design that 10+ yrs later Duff now sells. I think Dilo helped me with a trailer repair on that early design back at SOB 4 or 5... The third attachment point of DOM tube runs back to the top of the housing. As you can see, it's being adapted to my "new" rear housing... another one bent...

In this pic the front isn't attached yet and all the crap hanging on the drivers side frame rail and fuel pump mess is gone...