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302 won't idle (Not mine)

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  • 302 won't idle (Not mine)

    I've got a question for the engine gurus who frequent this site. My dad is building a 38 Ford pickup street rod - he's got a decently built little 302 as the power plant - the block is a 1979 Mustang block. The block was machined and bored slightly. All internals are new, and the heads were rebuilt, have new valves, lifters, etc. The cam is pretty mild (not one that should lope at idle). The compression ratio is not super high, I want to say 9:1 or so. It's got a brand new Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake and has had a variety of carbs mounted as testers.

    Here's the problem: the thing will not run well when its turning less than 1000 RPMs. It sounds very healthy once the revs are up (as any small block with headers and flowmasters does) and runs very smooth at higher rpms.

    Proper cam break-in procedures were followed. It has run the same way with numerous carburetors (a couple of Edelbrocks and a couple of others) and even after swapping a different set of heads on, it still acts like this. There are no vacuum leaks that he's aware of, the timing has been checked and re-checked. He's even swapped distributors and also tried the later model firing order to make sure that the wrong cam wasn't installed.

    This is really getting frustrating. I am out of ideas to suggest and he's picked the brains of several mechanic friends of his. He is now borrowing a friend's two-barrel cast iron intake and a 2-bbl carb to try and rule out a problem with the intake manifold.

    Does anybody have any other suggestions? I know its a stretch but I figured I'd give this board a shot... Maybe somebody else has seen something similar?
    1970 Bronco
    My build thread

  • #2
    is he running a vacuum advance? If so, is it hooked to the proper port? No vacuum at idle.
    1968, 69 351W,NP 435, Stak 5.22, D44 with 4.10's, chebby discs and a detroit, 9" with 4.11's and a lockright. 35" MTR's, TRO, WH cage, ps, pb, 3.5" susp, 2" body lifts, pile of parts in the garage, empty wallet!

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    • #3
      Also, when it is idling like crap, does it smell rich? If so, maybe the coil isn't getting enough juice at idle. Have you checked all the voltages? Fuel pressure? Vacuum levels?
      Last edited by kwspony; 07-31-2008, 06:07 PM.
      1968, 69 351W,NP 435, Stak 5.22, D44 with 4.10's, chebby discs and a detroit, 9" with 4.11's and a lockright. 35" MTR's, TRO, WH cage, ps, pb, 3.5" susp, 2" body lifts, pile of parts in the garage, empty wallet!

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      • #4
        and you are absolutly positive you have no vacuum leaks on the power brake circuit and you dohble checked by using WD-40 or propane gas? Are you running an old style combo vacuum and mechanical advance distributor? You checked to see if the vacuum advance diaphram holds vacuum? Did you try sealing all the vacuum ports?
        Relativity: Where ever you go, there you are.

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        • #5
          That sure sounds like the symptoms of a vacuum leak. Has he inspected the intake manifold to make sure that it's sealed up against the heads nice. (no sucking in air anywhere)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by crawlin68 View Post
            That sure sounds like the symptoms of a vacuum leak. Has he inspected the intake manifold to make sure that it's sealed up against the heads nice. (no sucking in air anywhere)
            Exactly what I was thinking. Pull and reset the intake if you are sure all vac leaks are fixed and timing is at 12 deg btdc max. Valves adjusted properly?
            “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

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            • #7
              Do not pass go until you put a vacuum gauge on it. that should tell you a lot.

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              • #8
                I have sure suspected vacuum since the beginning as well.
                My parents live about 700 miles away so I have not actually been around it to witness this - just lots of phone and email contact. He's re-set the intake manifold more than once, checked for vacuum leaks with propane, done all the obvious stuff but its still acting like this. I believe he's actually even plugged all vacuum lines as the vehicle is not really drivable - so no vacuum to the booster, etc. I will probably be up there at the end of August so if its not fixed by then I might get a little wrench time on it.

                I am not sure if he's hooked up a vac. gauge but that's not a bad idea.

                I'm glad you all seem to agree with me on this - its about the only logical thing left to suspect. The valves are adjusted right and they've been checked by a few other folks. It sounds very strange to me.

                Thanks,
                -Tony
                1970 Bronco
                My build thread

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                • #9
                  Valves adjusted to tight...assuming all other info is correct
                  Last edited by TBS-POPS; 08-01-2008, 04:25 AM.
                  72 sport/exp.,TBI 302,NP435,4.56 Powrlok/ARB in Full Width's.5.5" CAGE lift w/arms,2'' bl,37's, rescued from the concrete jungle (L.A.) NEVER DONE!!! Sold to buy a Boat, Now Broncoless.....Now it's fast water,smooth women and cold beer!! toad jeep owner now,,,,,, sorry

                  ALL MY DRINKING BUDDIES HAVE A SEVERE BRONCO PROBLEM !!!


                  Originally posted by 71BRONCO71
                  BULLSHIT! I love your meat in my mouth
                  RIP MARK BECK RIP MY FRIEND! RIP GIZMO,My little Buddy.

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                  • #10
                    Bummer they are not closer, I'd like to take a look.
                    What size / model carbs is he putting on?
                    At lower RPMs is it chugging, or supttering?
                    Points or electric dist?
                    vaccum, or mech advance in the dist?

                    After letting it run at 600 RPM or so, pull the plugs, any 1 look different?
                    Mark Harris
                    71 Bronco, 9 inch, 60, c4, Stak 3 speed, and 42 inch balloons.

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                    • #11
                      So, how do you check for a vacuum leak with propane? What would I be looking for with the vacuum gauge? I seem to have the exact same symptoms with my bronco now that I put a new Q-jet on it. Only vacuum I have is to the PCV valve. No vacuum on the dizzy, never has. Some times it will pop crisply through the carb when I pop the throttle off of idle. Sounds like a 22 short going off. It does run good wide open though. Will light up my Iroks pretty damn good.
                      Marc D.
                      If you drive with rage, drive a cage.

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                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=earlybronco72;44413]Only vacuum I have is to the PCV valve. No vacuum on the dizzy, never has. QUOTE]

                        make sure that your vacuum port is the port that is supposed to go to the pcv. otherwise you have a massive leak. wide open it will run okay because it can use all that air. my carb has a full vacuum and a regulated vacuum port and i found that out the dumb way.
                        73 bronco

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                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=fatguy;44424]
                          Originally posted by earlybronco72 View Post
                          Only vacuum I have is to the PCV valve. No vacuum on the dizzy, never has. QUOTE]

                          make sure that your vacuum port is the port that is supposed to go to the pcv. otherwise you have a massive leak. wide open it will run okay because it can use all that air. my carb has a full vacuum and a regulated vacuum port and i found that out the dumb way.
                          Is that port supposed to be sucking all the time, or just when there is throttle involved. It has vacuum all the time right now, but doesn't seem to change anything when I plug it. It is the same port that it was hooked up to on the old carb. I don't remember if it sucked all the time with the old carb though.
                          Marc D.
                          If you drive with rage, drive a cage.

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                          • #14
                            If you rule out vacuum leaks you might test the coil and the voltage going to the coil, also check the fuel pressure it may be high and blowing past the float.
                            69, 342 EFI, C4, NP203, D20, 4.5" SL, 2" BL, 4.88 9" 35 spline ARB, 4.88 HP D44, WAH, ARB, CTM's, front disc , 37 x 14.50 Toyo MT, Ram Assist, and rear 4-link

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                            • #15
                              Hey guys,
                              I spoke to my father tonight. He found the problem - he had a defective Edelbrock manifold. He's already contacted Edelbrock about it and they seem like they're going to make it right and replace it for him.

                              He swapped on a 2-barrel manifold and carb and said the thing ran like a champ.

                              Thanks again for all the help/suggestions.
                              -Tony
                              1970 Bronco
                              My build thread

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