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  • Now a tranny or converter failure

    I'll give a brief description of what my tranny is doing:

    In moab at about 2400 RPMs and up the converter (I thought) was making a whining noise that got higher pitched with higher RPMs. Did not happen at idle and did not happen when hot.

    Got it home, and it didn't do it here.

    Before the con it started doing it again. I checked the fluid and it was a dark grey-black color but no noise. I flushed the tranny and put in new fluid. All seemed fine.

    2 weeks ago, started to whine so I dropped the pan plug and noticed fluid was black again with a lot of metal on the pan magnet (ouch)

    Filled it back up and tranny seemed fine still.

    Last week the whine started back at 2400 rpms. I was only driving it around town since my truck is DOA. It started making this whine at idle and really bad at all rpms, increasing noise with rpms. Shifts (manual valve body) were really soft and squishy and some power loss. Stopped and shifted the 203 in to take some load off of the tranny. Shifts were harder but still not neck jerking like before.

    I got home and dropped the fluid once again and it was black like diluted diesel oil. I filled it back up and the noise was gone. Drove it around the block with the 203 engauged and broght it back home. Pulled the dipstick and the fluid came shooting out like a geiser. (yes I have a vent catch can....why is it not working?) and yes it cought fire on the headers. I was glad I was home with a hose handy.

    So in my mind since Moab, I was thinking my NEW Art Carr converter was failing. With the black fluid I was still thinking converter slippage, wear and heat build-up causing black fluid.

    I called Art Carr and gave Mike the converter guy the back ground. He immediately said my pump was failing causing the noise which he called hydraulic whine. He said the internal bypass for the cooler may be stuck sending way too much fluid to the cooling circuit. He said they block that passage to keep this from happening.

    He said for me to send in the converter and if it failed they would repair it for free as well as modify the pump for free. If the pump itself has failed they would rebuild that as well for a small fee.

    I sure in the hell hope it is the converter because if my pump caused the converter to fail, I am out 450 bucks. Either way, out comes the drivetrain again!!!!! Anybody wanna help??
    “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

  • #2
    Depends on when but I might be able to turn a few wrenches with you... Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck with your fleet.

    Next NCB wrench fest at Delta's house!

    Now where's that keg of fat tire mentioned in another thread???
    1970 Bronco
    My build thread

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Delta 4 Wheel View Post
      Anybody wanna help??
      I'm trying to get my own junk back together for next weekend, but I have a pretty handy tranny jack that makes things a lot easier, you are welcome to borrow it for as long as this ordeal takes.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can bring it. Lets set it up!
        77 Ranger, 302, C4, 4.88's, Detroits, 35 spline 9", WH 5.5", 3" BL, 37" BFG KM2's on Walker Evans 17" beadlocks

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TN1776 View Post
          Depends on when but I might be able to turn a few wrenches with you... Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck with your fleet.

          Next NCB wrench fest at Delta's house!

          Now where's that keg of fat tire mentioned in another thread???
          I can bring it. Let's set it up!
          77 Ranger, 302, C4, 4.88's, Detroits, 35 spline 9", WH 5.5", 3" BL, 37" BFG KM2's on Walker Evans 17" beadlocks

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          • #6
            got an address. Not sure what I have planned this weekend, but might be able to get away for a few.
            WT 4x4
            91' One Ton Bronco
            1971 Bronco
            9/11/01 Never Forget

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            • #7
              That was my guess as well would be a pump problem.
              Mark Harris
              71 Bronco, 9 inch, 60, c4, Stak 3 speed, and 42 inch balloons.

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              • #8
                Thanks for the offers to help this weekend. I will be in Tulsa from this Wednesday to the next Tuesday. I would love to have you guys over for some BBQ and some wrenching. I may have to push this off about a month though due to work in Sac on the weekends. If you all are still interested then, I will host a party!

                Tortuga, I may take you up on the tranny jack offer. I will let you know when I go back down to Fresburg and I can pick it up. Thanks!
                “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

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                • #9
                  Damn that sure sucks! I hope it's the converter. Let me know when the wrenching will happen.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Delta 4 Wheel View Post
                    Tortuga, I may take you up on the tranny jack offer. I will let you know when I go back down to Fresburg and I can pick it up. Thanks!
                    I live in Manteca, can also meet up in Stockton during the day. The jack is one of these:

                    http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=3185

                    Worked fine for an NP435, hard to adjust with the T/C attached though, worked better doing them one by one. It will lift it, just hard to tilt it. Might want to check the max height against your rig as well.

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                    • #11
                      24 inches up. I will check and let you know. The C-4 is pretty light but if I could install the 203 onto it and lift together that would br great. I could always flattent he tires to get another few inches. Either way, I am not looking forward to yanking this crap.
                      “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

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                      • #12
                        I had a buddy over for Christmas and thought I'd put him to work. We pulled the transfer cases and the tranny. Nothing wrong with the tranny and pump as far as I can tell. The bands look like the day they were installed and the clutches and steels look good as well. I will go ahead and get the Alto Red clutches from AR Trans just for good measure. There are some thrust washers and bushings that are a bit scored due to the debris so I will change those as well. I am sending the converter, pump, and valve body to Art Carr today. The converter will be cut open and repaired or replaced. The pump will be modified to increase line pressure by eliminating the extra bypass to the cooler. The valve body is the Reverse Art Carr valve body. I want them to give that a once over as well. Why not.

                        I also noticed that when the tranny cooler was installed (not by me) the soft line was totally kinked and was restricting all of the flow to the cooler.

                        My vent line was kinked as well which caused pressure in the tranny pushing tranny fluid into the 203 box. Not much this could do to damage the 203. No evidence of gear oil in the tranny.
                        “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

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                        • #13
                          Re: Now a tranny or converter failure

                          Got a call from Mike at Art Carr today. The valve body was internally fried due to super high heat. The pump was fine, and the converter will be cut open tomorrow. He is asking me to look for a kinked cooler line. Well, I obviously found one when I took the thing apart. I got a complete rebuild kit with Kolene steels and Alto reds and will do this thing again. I will re-route the cooler lines to make sure they are perfect. My tranny gauge was obviously not working because it never read about 150. I will look into that as well. Damn!
                          “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” TJ

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                          • #14
                            Re: Now a tranny or converter failure

                            Sorry to hear that Carl. At least you found out what it is and what caused it so you can rectify the problem. Good luck.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Now a tranny or converter failure

                              Originally posted by Delta 4 Wheel View Post
                              Got a call from Mike at Art Carr today. The valve body was internally fried due to super high heat. The pump was fine, and the converter will be cut open tomorrow. He is asking me to look for a kinked cooler line. Well, I obviously found one when I took the thing apart. I got a complete rebuild kit with Kolene steels and Alto reds and will do this thing again. I will re-route the cooler lines to make sure they are perfect. My tranny gauge was obviously not working because it never read about 150. I will look into that as well. Damn!
                              Is the sending unit for the temp guage in your pan or the cooling system?
                              69, 342 EFI, C4, NP203, D20, 4.5" SL, 2" BL, 4.88 9" 35 spline ARB, 4.88 HP D44, WAH, ARB, CTM's, front disc , 37 x 14.50 Toyo MT, Ram Assist, and rear 4-link

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