Steering rod saftey

[FLYINHIE]

I've got my lower and upper flaming river steering yokes. The lower is a no brainer but I need some saftey ideas for the upper. If you look at the picture you can see where I'm at. I was going to weld the yoke/u-joint straight to the steering rod but if I do that it makes it impossible to
#1. Remove the steering wheel if I ever need to
#2. I can't service the steering rod bushings (in the steering column) or replace them if the need ever arises.

What would be the next best and safest way for me to attach my steering yoke to by steering rod?
I can drill it and tap it. The problem with that is that the yoke I got(and can't return now) doesnt' have a very large area for tapping, there wouldn't be very many threads. NOT SAFE by itself.
I can drill through the yoke and the rod and pin them together.
I can drill it and tap it and then add two small tack welds.
I could saftey wire something, however I've never used saftey wire.

Bottom line is that I just don't want to die or kill my family going down the freeway and loose all steering. Open for fail safe suggestions.

[Lars]

Re: Steering rod saftey

Flaming River actually makes a version of that u-joint with two tapped holes oriented at 90°, with set screws and jam nuts. It's probably the same yoke as the one you have (not sure of the thread size, probably 1/4-20). I'm not crazy about set screws in steering columns though. You need to drill shallow holes into the column to give the screws a place to anchor- which might work fine- but even then it makes me uneasy. I agree, it would be pretty terrifying to lose steering; I have a vivid imagination for that sort of thing. Fortunately I already had a late column shaft with a splined end for a rag joint, so that part was taken care of for me.

[71BRONCO71]

Re: Steering rod saftey

Drill through the rod and the joint. Put a bolt through it.

Been running mine for the past 5 years just like this.
http://www.norcalbroncos.com/forum/a...1&d=1174285322

[Broncrick]

Re: Steering rod saftey

I drilled and tapped it, then drilled a divot in the rod. Then I put a couple small good tacks on it. If I have to remove it, I can always grind the welds

[Lars]

Re: Steering rod saftey

Another option if you want it rock solid (no slop) without welding would be to use an AN386-2-10 taper pin.

I have the reamer.

[DirtDonk]

Re: Steering rod saftey

So that's just a round hole in that top yoke FLYNHIE? I know you said you can't return it, but why not? Not allowed, or just not worth it?
Reason I'm asking is that I like the Double-D option best myself. A 3/4" DD upper could be slipped over a slightly modified upper shaft and you'd be safe and secure with a couple of set-screws or a small through-bolt.

You've seen Jim's YouTube video on modifying the shaft? It's pretty easy and you only remove a slight amount from each "side" to create that Double-D setup. With that design, as long as it isn't allowed to slide downward, the "D" shape will keep it from ever spinning.

Maybe you already thought of that and it wouldn't work for you for whatever reason. If so, sorry to re-hash it all. But that way makes the most sense to me.
And even though they all say don't weld to the joints, if you had to for peace of mind, then you could put that single small tack on there to give a more warm-and-fuzzy feeling.

Hope you get er rigged up without too much additional expense.

Paul

[FLYINHIE]

Re: Steering rod saftey

All good ideas. I really like the tapered pin. You can't see it in the pic but I already welded the other end of the yoke. That's why I can't return it. I think I'm gonna get a tapered pin and reamer. Great full proof idea removable solution. Thanks Lars.

[jamesroney]

Re: Steering rod saftey

All good ideas. I really like the tapered pin. You can't see it in the pic but I already welded the other end of the yoke. That's why I can't return it. I think I'm gonna get a tapered pin and reamer. Great full proof idea removable solution. Thanks Lars.

The set screw idea is NOT safe. I wrote a post somewhere else about how mine fell out. The set screws at 90 degrees are 5/16-18 and only have about 3 threads engaged. Really poor design.

I like the tapered pin idea...but someone needs to figure out how to retain the pin, and make it fail proof. Furthermore, it will put the pin in double shear, so you need pretty big pin. (I would estimate at least 1/4 inch at the minor root diameter.) Some can do the calc and see what you would really need, but a shear pin at 3/4 inch diameter and a 15 inch steering wheel is going to need to be bigger than 1/8. The guy with the 5/16 thru bolt is probably strong enough, and allows the bolt to act as a clamp to keep the shaft tight to the joint. That's the one I would do, and then safety wire or cotter pin the pinch bolt.

Obviously, I am tainted in this, and I have written previously how much I despise those flaming river / borgeson joints...so I won't continue that rant here.

[Lars]

Re: Steering rod saftey

The set screw idea is NOT safe. I wrote a post somewhere else about how mine fell out. The set screws at 90 degrees are 5/16-18 and only have about 3 threads engaged. Really poor design.

I like the tapered pin idea...but someone needs to figure out how to retain the pin, and make it fail proof. Furthermore, it will put the pin in double shear, so you need pretty big pin. (I would estimate at least 1/4 inch at the minor root diameter.) Some can do the calc and see what you would really need, but a shear pin at 3/4 inch diameter and a 15 inch steering wheel is going to need to be bigger than 1/8. The guy with the 5/16 thru bolt is probably strong enough, and allows the bolt to act as a clamp to keep the shaft tight to the joint. That's the one I would do, and then safety wire or cotter pin the pinch bolt.

Obviously, I am tainted in this, and I have written previously how much I despise those flaming river / borgeson joints...so I won't continue that rant here.

The pins are plenty strong. This sort of application is precisely why AN386 pins exist. They are used in applications such as retaining rod-type landing gear, and resist the twisting forces applied by the aircraft when they touch down. Retained either with a locking fastener (I recommend an all-metal locknut since that's too close to the exhaust for a nylock to be reliable) or with a castle nut & cotter pin. I would prefer a pin to any bolt, since by definition the bolt has clearance. You depend on the clamping load to distort the u-joint socket enough for it not to slip. It works, but a pin is stuck in there better. Oh yeah; the pin I recommended is .255" diameter at the small end of the taper.

[jamesroney]

Re: Steering rod saftey

The pins are plenty strong. (snip) Oh yeah; the pin I recommended is .255" diameter at the small end of the taper.

Thanks. I just got to access the link to see the detail of the pin. I knew that it was a Brown and Sharp Taper, but I did not know that it had a threaded end on it. For some reason, the Hotel server would not allow me to access the mil-link here in Suzhou, China.

But my work server let me in, and now I can see the pin. Thanks.

1/4 inch is pretty close to .255, so I'll concede it. I don't know the shear strength of the AN386 material, but I imagine that it is superior to a grade 5 cap screw!!!

Castle Nut, and Cotter pin...and I'm sold.

Thanks for the info.

[tortuga]

Re: Steering rod saftey

The set screw idea is NOT safe. I wrote a post somewhere else about how mine fell out. The set screws at 90 degrees are 5/16-18 and only have about 3 threads engaged. Really poor design.

Was that a Flaming River product? My column has the divot/grub screw method going, but the screws are are 5/16th, have at least that much thread engaged and have a locking nut to boot.

The shaft is also kinda double-d-shaped and has a slip joint, so it takes most of the shear load from twisting the shaft, these only have to keep the joints from slipping off. For a round shaft I'd probably want to up the strength to deal with the shear more.

[jamesroney]

Re: Steering rod saftey

Was that a Flaming River product? My column has the divot/grub screw method going, but the screws are are 5/16th, have at least that much thread engaged and have a locking nut to boot.

The shaft is also kinda double-d-shaped and has a slip joint, so it takes most of the shear load from twisting the shaft, these only have to keep the joints from slipping off. For a round shaft I'd probably want to up the strength to deal with the shear more.

Mine was a Borgeson Universal product. It was retained using two 5/16-18 set screws with jam nuts. The failure was on the 36 x 13/16 spline end.

I was driving across the dessert on my way to Surprise Canyon. This was back before they closed the trail. The set screw dis-integrated and allowed the steering joint to separate from the steering box. The steering wheel spun freely in my grip. My buddy next to me couldn't believe that it wasn't a joke. At 40 mph in the dessert...the Bronco just started wandering to the left. No hope of controlling it. Applying brakes just made things worse. Thank goodness that there wasn't ANYTHING near me. Took forever to get that thing slowed down. Had that joint let loose any other time, it would have been really ugly.

I repaired the joint by using an extra 5/16 bolt from the fender. That held for the day. When I got home, I found that the set screw had actually disintegrated, and had some kind of brittle fracture. The metal of the set screw literally crumbled. That was enough drama for me. I replaced it with a safety wired, jam nut, loc-tite cap hex head bolt.

The tapered pin would not have worked on the steering box end.

I guess I shouldn't blame Flaming River, or Borgeson...since it was really the fastener that failed. But both of those u-joint designs rely on that set screw, and I'm not putting my life in the hands of a $0.20 set screw again.

Now I run the spicer joint, with splines...and a pinch bolt. Might not be stronger, but it sure looks better.

[Lars]

Re: Steering rod saftey

Thanks. I just got to access the link to see the detail of the pin. I knew that it was a Brown and Sharp Taper, but I did not know that it had a threaded end on it. For some reason, the Hotel server would not allow me to access the mil-link here in Suzhou, China.

But my work server let me in, and now I can see the pin. Thanks.

1/4 inch is pretty close to .255, so I'll concede it. I don't know the shear strength of the AN386 material, but I imagine that it is superior to a grade 5 cap screw!!!

Castle Nut, and Cotter pin...and I'm sold.

Thanks for the info.

There is some crazy good hardware that is in regular use in the aviation world that you would never hear about unless you get around airplanes. It's like a parallel universe. I would never have known about stuff like AN386 pins had I not undertaken to build an airplane. There is a whole lot of stuff on my Bronco that would be different if I had had a knowledge of aviation hardware before I started modifying it. I'm glad you found the information useful. I'm glad I actually thought of it- not a given, since sometimes when I'm in "Bronco mode" I shut out the aviation side.

Mine was a Borgeson Universal product. It was retained using two 5/16-18 set screws with jam nuts. The failure was on the 36 x 13/16 spline end.

I was driving across the dessert on my way to Surprise Canyon. This was back before they closed the trail. The set screw dis-integrated and allowed the steering joint to separate from the steering box. The steering wheel spun freely in my grip. My buddy next to me couldn't believe that it wasn't a joke. At 40 mph in the dessert...the Bronco just started wandering to the left. No hope of controlling it. Applying brakes just made things worse. Thank goodness that there wasn't ANYTHING near me. Took forever to get that thing slowed down. Had that joint let loose any other time, it would have been really ugly.

I repaired the joint by using an extra 5/16 bolt from the fender. That held for the day. When I got home, I found that the set screw had actually disintegrated, and had some kind of brittle fracture. The metal of the set screw literally crumbled. That was enough drama for me. I replaced it with a safety wired, jam nut, loc-tite cap hex head bolt.

The tapered pin would not have worked on the steering box end.

I guess I shouldn't blame Flaming River, or Borgeson...since it was really the fastener that failed. But both of those u-joint designs rely on that set screw, and I'm not putting my life in the hands of a $0.20 set screw again.

Now I run the spicer joint, with splines...and a pinch bolt. Might not be stronger, but it sure looks better.

Holy sh!t. What a nightmare story. And I do agree- I hate set screws for applications like this. Not sure why I put up with them on the steering shaft (even though like you, they are on splined shafts) since at work, I always choose or design circumferential pinch clamps on the machinery I deal with.

[broncobill]

Re: Steering rod saftey

When I changed from manual to power, I had a friend that had a setup in an old pickup in his shop/yard. His helper pulled it for him by cutting it in half! To pull my manual shaft, since the top was still on, I had to remove the steering box and remove the shaft down under the frame. I then welded the steering shaft back together with a metal sleve on it and installed it from the bottom up. I don't see the problem removing the steering wheel.....it comes off from the top.

[FLYINHIE]

Re: Steering rod saftey

When I changed from manual to power, I had a friend that had a setup in an old pickup in his shop/yard. His helper pulled it for him by cutting it in half! To pull my manual shaft, since the top was still on, I had to remove the steering box and remove the shaft down under the frame. I then welded the steering shaft back together with a metal sleve on it and installed it from the bottom up. I don't see the problem removing the steering wheel.....it comes off from the top.

Not sure but I think your referencing my need to service the steering. For me, I wanted an easy way to remove the steering rod and replace worn bushings/bearings. Pinning the shaft to the new yoke with a taper pin is super easy and quick. I could have removed the steering wheel but then I wouldn't be able to get the lower bushing/bearing in place because it has to be installed from the bottom. With the pin it's all serviceable.
SIDE NOTE: The taper pin Lars is referencing is not a standard taper. It is a larger taper than a normal taper pin(more angle). This has an advantage of being more secure and a more positive "locking" effect once the nut is tightened. Far less chance of it ever working its way through. It is .500 per foot taper where I believe a standard taper pin is half that .250 per foot taper.